Dune 2 Review

Ethan: 0:18

Hello, everybody. And welcome back to another episode of father and son's guide to the galaxy. I'm your host, Ethan, and

Anthony: 0:26

I'm your co host Anthony.

Ethan: 0:28

And today we are doing something a little bit out of the ordinary. We are going to be reviewing the new Dune movie that just came out. Yes,

Anthony: 0:38

it was so, so good. But first, before we do that, we should take a moment and recognize the success that we've had on this podcast by reaching 10 episodes. This is episode number 10, double digits. I'm pretty proud of that.

Ethan: 0:56

Yeah. It kind of just goes to show that if you stick with something, you can make it go a decent way. Like, you know. It's fun.

Anthony: 1:05

Yeah.

Ethan: 1:06

So that's why we do it.

Anthony: 1:07

Yeah. It's been a lot of fun. So before you know it, we'll be at fifty and a hundred episodes. This thing's gonna keep going and going and going, I'm sure of it.

Ethan: 1:15

Yep. No matter how many listeners we have, we're just gonna keep making them. Right. All

Anthony: 1:19

ten of you. Oh, listener for episode. Right. So, Dune 2, we saw it not this weekend, but the weekend before last, and it was awesome. I really loved it. What did you think of it?

Ethan: 1:38

Yeah, I really like the world that's been created. I think it's a very interesting and, you know, I One thing I like about the movie is they never do things the easy way. Yeah. Getting the, the, how the Fremen get around, they jump on the back of giant worms, they have to drink their own recycled water.

Anthony: 2:01

Right, they can't walk normally in the sand because they don't want to

Ethan: 2:05

They don't want to attract the worms. Attract the

Anthony: 2:07

worms when they don't want them there, yeah. Yeah the world building in Dune is awesome, and that's because of Frank Herbert who, who wrote the book he just created this amazing universe, this amazing galaxy of worlds, and, and Arrakis, which is where, which is The name for, for Dune is the, kind of where all the action is and I just, I thought they did an excellent job with this movie. I really enjoyed the first one, but I liked this one even better, and I think, having read the book, I think this is probably the best adaptation of a book, if you combine Dune 1 and Dune 2 and, and kind of think of them as a, as a single movie. I think that's probably the best adaptation of a book on screen that I've ever seen. Denis Vanouf, who's the character. French Canadian director who, who directed part one and part two. He's just got a, a visionary mind and he's he's super creative and he, he just did a great job of taking that dense, complex story that Frank Herbert wrote and putting it on screen in, you know, telling that story in, in, you know, Four hours or whatever it was. So I, I was just super impressed with it and I can't wait to see it again. What did you like most about Dune II?

Ethan: 3:36

I think One of the things I really liked a lot is the opening of the movie. Because, literally, if you were to just stitch both the ending and the beginning of that movie again, It would feel like, you wouldn't even notice it. Yeah. Cause the movie opens pretty much right where it left in the desert, and

Anthony: 3:56

Yeah. I think it was a little bit later, but, but you're right. I mean, they pick up, because, cause Dune 1 ends where Paul Atreides and his mom have joined the Fremen, and he's just killed that guy I can't think of the character's name, that, that he had to kill. do like a fight with the guy to become a member of the Freeman or to be accepted into their ranks. He wasn't a full fledged Fremen yet, but but yeah, I think generally it was pretty soon after the events of the first one that Dune II started. I'd say

Ethan: 4:27

probably a couple of days later. Yeah,

Anthony: 4:29

yeah, probably so. And so it was a, it was a pretty seamless transition and that, that, yeah, they, they did a great job with that. I really liked, well, I thought the acting was phenomenal and it was really, really well cast. And we, we get some new characters this time. So we get Florence Pugh who plays Princess Irulan. And she's pretty good. She doesn't have a lot of scenes, but when she is there she's, you know, she's got just such a great presence on screen. Right. And, and then Fade Rautha, who's one of the main villains, if you will. And we'll talk about whether everybody's a villain in this story, because to some degree they are. But he, he's this, you know, murderous psychotic nephew of the Baron Harkonnen, and he, the Baron kind of gives him the, the responsibility to oversee the spice production and to destroy the, the Freeman on Arrakis. And that dude is just crazy. And so he, he was played by Austin Butler, who remarkably played Elvis in the Elvis movie that came out a couple years ago. And he looks totally different and I, I was watching some interviews this week with him, and apparently he didn't actually shave his head for the role. What they did was they, they created a, a prosthetic, And it covered up his eyebrows, cause he, you know, he didn't have eyebrows in the movie either. And then made it look like he was just completely bald all the way back. The reason he didn't shave is because he had another movie that he was about to go work on, and so they had asked him, can you please not shave your head? You know, cause we need you to have hair in this movie. So the, the costume and makeup people just did a, an amazing job. I mean, it looks real. You feel like you're there. It was just awesome.

Ethan: 6:27

Yeah, and there's probably also a little bit of CGI to help with that makeup.

Anthony: 6:32

Yeah, probably a little bit. Just to

Ethan: 6:34

touch up some spots, because, you know, like bald caps, you can kind of see it sometimes. Right,

Anthony: 6:37

right. Yeah, I'm sure there was a little bit, but they said it took, I think you said it took like two hours. Three hours or something to get it all on, but you know to be ready to Shoot so it's

Ethan: 6:48

like some of the Star Trek makeup.

Anthony: 6:50

Yeah. Yeah for sure Yeah, so loved it love the themes in Dune I, I love the, the political and religious aspects of the story. And I love how the hero of the story. Paul Atreides is, is really not the hero, ends up not being the hero that we expect him to be, right? Right. And he, like, the story, Frank Herbert kind of made him, like, he took the hero's journey and sort of turned it on its head. And so Paul does help the Fremen defeat the Harkonnens and defeat the the Emperor. But At the same time, when he gets this power and he becomes this, like, religious symbol this prophet he, he kind of embraces that role and goes too far with it. And then they set, set up for the next movie, Dune Messiah, which is based on the second book, where the they, they take over, they, they, they basically wage a holy war and, and take over the other houses throughout the galaxy.

Ethan: 8:04

Right. One thing I thought was interesting about the whole thing with Paul Atreides and him ending up kind of, you know, saving Arrakis, but for all the wrong reasons, is everything he ended up doing in the end, he never wanted to do in the beginning. Yeah. Cause he, he said, I, stuff like, I don't wanna be your, Like religious figure. I don't want to be your leader. I just want to fight.

Anthony: 8:30

Yeah Yeah, that's true. One thing that was kind of different in the movie is his resistance to being the Lisan al Gaib, which is the the prophesied leader of the of the Fremen and In the book, he, he, he's not quite as resistant to it. I liked how they did that in the movie though, because it created this real conflict. In the book, he, he starts to recognize early on that he is supposed to be the Lisan al Gaib, and he, but his motives aren't bad in the beginning. Whereas in the movie, like you said, he's, he doesn't want to embrace that role. He, he, he sees the danger in it, but he ends up doing it anyway. And then that, you know, leads to what, what will be this holy war throughout the Imperium.

Ethan: 9:23

Right. I think the biggest thing that led to his downfall was the I don't remember what they called it, the, the, the drink that they had. It was kind of, it was the poison thing from the worm.

Anthony: 9:35

Yeah, the

Ethan: 9:36

was it like the water of life? Water

Anthony: 9:38

of life, something like that, yeah. I can't remember. Yeah,

Ethan: 9:41

and then it all starts when his mother takes it and miraculously survives. Yeah. You know, because it was what she was trained to do to change the form of the poison or whatever. Yeah. And then you see this shift in her character, which is really fascinating. She kind of starts hearing voices. And she's like saying like Her daughter is talking to her from inside her stomach, which is kind of weird.

Anthony: 10:08

Yeah, and so that's another difference with the book. So in the book, she is pregnant when she drinks the water of life and becomes the Reverend Mother figure. But the, the, The child is actually born in the book and is this super gifted child. So she's like a baby, but she's able to like carry on conversations and stuff. I really liked the way that they handled that in the movie by just keeping her in the womb, but making her communicate with the Lady Jessica, the Reverend Mother Because I, it, it made it a little more believable, and I was, I was really curious how they were going to try to pull that off, because the the character of Paul Atreides sister is, is an important, a really important character in the book, and she's, she's important to the story. And it just would have seemed so, I, I, I thought, are they going to do like a CGI baby that talks or something? You know,

Ethan: 11:09

talking baby would have been kind of creepy.

Anthony: 11:10

Yeah, it would have looked and felt really weird. And so I, I thought the way that they handled that was awesome. And it made it a lot more believable made it a lot easier to suspend your disbelief. And then they showed Aaliyah, that's, that's her name, Aaliyah Atreides as an older a woman with, with a, a scene that was like a, a scene from the future or something. But played by Anya Taylor Joy, who's also a great actress. And I, I'm wondering if she's gonna have a bigger role in the third movie that they're probably gonna make. Another interesting difference was Chani, his character Shani, Chani, I don't, I can't remember if, if it's Chani, is it Chani or Shani?

Ethan: 11:54

I don't remember. Yeah, I can't remember

Anthony: 11:55

either. But played by Zendaya, who is really becoming a great actress. She's she's really got a great screen presence. But in the book, At the end, when Paul Atreides says he's going to wed Princess Irulan, and they're going to rule the Imperium together, Shani stays with Paul. And in the movie, they changed that, and I thought it was a pretty good change because it, it, it gives Shani a little more autonomy, and so she leaves, and goes and rides off on a sandworm back to, you know, Fremen do. Right.

Ethan: 12:34

Just casually get a ride.

Anthony: 12:35

Yeah, and so I think it sets up potentially sets up a really good conflict in the third movie between Shani and Paul and maybe even the princess. And so I liked, I liked that change that they made for the movie, even, even though it was, you know, a fairly significant change from the book. Yeah. So, one of the things I noticed, you just can't help but notice with Dune, is how much Star Wars is inspired by Dune. And in some cases, outright borrows material from Dune. What was your take of that? Like, what kind of things did you notice as far as parallels between Dune and Star Wars?

Ethan: 13:22

Let's see, a big thing. Like, the whole government system they have is called the Imperium, right? Right. And so, the Empire, the Imperium. Yeah. You know, very similar names. And then they've got a bunch of In Star Wars they have the Jedi Knights with the force, and in Dune they have the Bene Gesserit and their weird mind powers.

Anthony: 13:47

Yeah, yeah, I think the Jedi had to have been inspired by the Bene

Ethan: 13:52

Gesserit. The Jedi mind tricks. Right.

Anthony: 13:55

And, but what's interesting is, in Star Wars, of course, the Jedi are the heroes, right? Yes. And in Dune, I think you can make an argument that the Bene Gesserit are actually the most evil of all the characters, because they, they have this, you behind the scenes plan to create this what they call the Kwisatz Haderach, which is their super being. And it ends up coming in the form of Paul Atreides like a generation too early, but their, their goal is to manipulate all the different players in the political system so that this Kwisatz Haderach can come forth and become the kind of the, the god emperor, so to speak, and I, I think I think arguably they're the worst of all the characters as far as morality goes. Yeah. Yeah. And there, you know, there was that scene in the first movie and in the book too where they hold the Gamjabar up to a point. Paul Atreides neck and he has to stick his hand in the box and feel all this pain and stuff. And so they, they kind of set that stage right from the beginning that, because that was at, towards the beginning of the first movie and, and in the beginning of the book that the, Benny Jesseret are, are, They're up to no good, you know, they're very sly and cunning in the way that they do it and they play they play the part You know, to to look like they're allies with the emperor allies with the harkonnens or whoever But they have their own underlying objectives. They're

Ethan: 15:42

really just playing everyone Yeah, they're the puppeteers and everyone else is their own puppets.

Anthony: 15:47

Yeah, so they're almost even though the Jedi were probably inspired by them. They're almost more like the Sith, right? And, and I don't think George Lucas invented the Sith until later on, you know, when he was working on the prequel trilogy. And so may, he may have drawn from that again when creating the, the Sith who are kind of behind the scenes and devious and plotting and cunning to, you know, that with this goal to take over. The empire or in Dune's case the the Imperium,

Ethan: 16:21

right?

Anthony: 16:23

Tatooine on Star Wars, obviously, was based on Dune on Arrakis. Yeah, except they

Ethan: 16:30

got a lot more to drink over there. Yeah,

Anthony: 16:32

yeah. I mean, and that's not out of the ordinary for science fiction, for you know, science fiction authors and creators to borrow and be inspired by earlier works. writers and creators, you know, so it's, this isn't, I don't mean this as a criticism of George Lucas. I love Star Wars. You and I both have loved Star Wars for a long time. But it, but it is interesting to see how much he, he seemingly borrowed from Dune to create his own mythological world with all the, all the great, you know, stories and characters and stuff that we've come to love over the years.

Ethan: 17:12

Right. Right. So another connection I wanted to make was the character Gurney Halleck. He really gave me, like, this Han Solo vibe of a character, and you could kind of tell that's who Han Solo was based off, because in, in the second movie when we see him, everybody thought he was dead, but it turns out he was, like, working on this spice ship as, like, a trader, and He was, like, making runs to different, delivering spice, pretty much. Yeah. Like, like how Han Solo is a smuggler. Right. But I think a little bit more in the law.

Anthony: 17:47

Yeah. Well, yeah, and that, exactly, the, the whole smuggling of of spice. I mean, they, they had spice in Star Wars. It, it, it was, it served a different purpose. In, in Dune, spice is, like, this amazing commodity that can, you know, make Ships be able to do interstellar travel and, and, you know, cause, yeah, I mean, it has all all sorts of powers. Yeah. Spice's life.

Ethan: 18:13

Yeah. And then he also, once they find him and he decides to help him out, he, yeah, he, he basically just does a bunch of like cool fighting stuff. He shows them where the atomic bombs are. And yeah, he was just like, Oh no, he's just this like, really epic dude. He got into a fight with the one guy, can't remember his name, and he pretty much just died. Yeah. With a sword right through the chest.

Anthony: 18:40

Yeah, he's pretty awesome. I love his loyalty to the Atreides family, too. I, I really love that, you know, how, he, he wasn't just loyal because he was employed by them or their servant, but he like, he really loves Paul, right? And he really loved Paul's brother. And so his loyalty is based on love, not out of obligation, which I thought is a, you know, made him a specifically unique character you know, and, and maybe the most moral of all the characters. I don't know.

Ethan: 19:18

Yeah, I don't know if moral would be a good way to describe him because he he was the one that showed them where the Atomic bomb I wouldn't say that's the most moral thing. Yeah,

Anthony: 19:27

maybe what I mean Maybe a better way to say it is principle based, you know Yeah, he he knows what his purpose is and he believes in it He's convicted and and he follows through with yeah, I don't

Ethan: 19:41

I don't know if he's like under oath or anything Right. But if he was, he, he sure is dedicated to following that.

Anthony: 19:47

Yeah, yeah, definitely. The Stormtroopers from Star Wars are, I think, based in part on the Sardaukar, which in Dune, the Sardaukar, Sardauk, I think I'm saying it right, Sardaukar. That sounds right. Yeah they're like this elite Force right there the Emperor's troopers

Ethan: 20:08

get the storm troopers can't even

Anthony: 20:09

yeah, but the storm troopers obviously Not elite because they in

Ethan: 20:14

the first five minutes of the movie. You see this one guy from like a cliff snipe one of those Worms summoning things. Yeah.

Anthony: 20:23

Yeah,

Ethan: 20:24

like no hesitation just shoot And it's just gone.

Anthony: 20:27

Yeah. Yeah, they're pretty they're pretty cool as far as Their

Ethan: 20:31

only problem is you gotta break the glass on their head and they're pretty much gone.

Anthony: 20:35

Yeah. Yeah. But I liked the Sardaukar. And the Emperor What was your take on the Emperor's character? I mean,

Ethan: 20:45

I guess Oh, I'm thinking of the guy who was basically running Arrakis. The Emperor? He, he reminded me of Palpatine before he was emperor, like when he was chancellor, just cause you know, the, the democratic government in Star Wars kind of had a hard time doing things when it was the Republic and the emperor in this seemed just really unable to. Make a, make a choice. He got, he, like, he, he just gets to Arrakis while the big fight is happening, and then he is already forced to agree to, to these terms that Paul puts down.

Anthony: 21:27

Yeah, it's a pretty quick downfall for him. Yeah. And he doesn't have mystical powers, right, in, in the Emperor in Dune. He's, he's a politic, he has political power, but that power is come, you know, falling apart at the seams towards the end of the movie, and then ultimately he, he becomes irrelevant, you know. Yeah. And ends up, you know, You know, it must have been humiliating, that scene where he kisses Paul Atreides ring. Do you remember that? At the movie. Yeah, so, I so yeah, so the Emperor definitely has some differences between the you know, as compared with the Emperor from Star Wars. I I was skeptical of the casting of the Emperor in Dune II Christopher Walken, who, I love Christopher Walken, he's, he's great, he, in, in some movies, but I had a really hard time seeing him as playing this emperor figure, but it turns out he did a really good job. I, I, I really, I bought into his character. I thought his relationship with his daughter, the princess Irulan, was portrayed really well. And so Christopher Walken really is a good actor. I just, because of some of the other roles I've seen him in, I, I was having a hard time envisioning how he would be in this movie, but he, he did a great job.

Ethan: 22:51

Yeah. If there was a character that I would relate to Emperor Palpatine, it was Oh, his name is leaving me. But, you know, he's just the guy that is basically in charge of Arrakis throughout the whole movie. Yeah, the baron. Yeah, and he's like always sitting in that hot tub.

Anthony: 23:09

Yeah, I mean, talk about a disgusting character, right? Yeah. Like, they made him as disgusting as they possibly could.

Ethan: 23:17

And he's always having somebody else do his dirty work.

Anthony: 23:20

Yeah, yeah, he, he, he's He directs other people. He doesn't go out and do it on his own.

Ethan: 23:26

And he had that like right hand man character that you could see as a Darth Vader style character.

Anthony: 23:31

Right. Right. Right.

Ethan: 23:33

I keep saying like the characters is like a star Wars style character, but no, the star Wars characters are a dune. Right. It's just hard to wrap my mind around.

Anthony: 23:43

Yeah. Yeah, it is. Well, cause I mean, you, you grew up watching star Wars, not dune. Right. Yeah. And so, so it makes sense. I, I did too. In fact, I've never even seen the 1984 Dune version in its entirety. I've seen like clips on YouTube and stuff, but I've never seen the whole thing. I kind of want to go watch it even though it's supposed to be pretty terrible, just because it's like this cult classic and I think it'd be fun to kind of compare the 1980s movie to the the current movies that have come out. Yeah. But, but yeah, I mean, it, it, it, it, it really is true that you know, were it not for Dune, I don't think we would have had Star Wars, at least not Star Wars as we know it.

Ethan: 24:26

It'd probably be very different.

Anthony: 24:29

Yeah. And Star Wars was inspired by other science fiction too. I mean, it was certainly inspired by Isaac Asimov's foundation series. And inspired by history, inspired by mythology, you know, so it, it has a, George Lucas was inspired by a lot of things and used a lot of elements from different stories in creating Star Wars, but I think probably the one he drew most heavily from had to have been Dune.

Ethan: 24:57

Yeah.

Anthony: 24:59

So, anyway I recommend if you haven't seen Dune 2 go check it out. If you haven't watched Dune 1, watch that first because they, the two movies do go together, and I think you'll be a little confused if you skip Dune 1. So they're, they're great movies The, the plot is complex, you know, and it's a, it's a little bit of a slow burn, I think. Yeah. But I kind of like that about it. I, I, I like slow burns if they're done well. Mm hmm. And, and in this case, Dune 2 was, was done really well. But, so, and you do, Both of the movies are fairly long. I think they're both about two and a half hours long. Yeah, I think so. Or something like that. So, you know, you know, be careful. ready to sit down and, you know, watch a long movie if you're going to do it but yeah, it was awesome and I can't wait for them to make the Dune Messiah movie. I, I, I think it's going to be just as good, if not better than the, these first two, especially since the director is staying involved with it and working on the script and

Ethan: 26:06

Yeah. I would also really recommend this movie. I personally haven't read the book, but the movie is written in a way to where you don't have to read the book to understand it. As long as you've watched one, you can understand two. Yeah,

Anthony: 26:24

yeah, for sure. Yeah, you definitely don't have to have read the book to enjoy these movies. You know, as always, if you read the book, it probably does help a little bit when you go to watch the movie. If, if the movie's of a somewhat faithful adaptation, but but it's certainly not necessary in this case to have read the book before you see the movies.

Ethan: 26:46

Yeah, and also it is very visually appealing. The graphics that they used look stunning. The CGI is great.

Anthony: 26:53

Yeah. Yeah, aesthetically, it's just amazing. They, they take this Barren desert planet and just

Ethan: 27:03

they put so much life into it. Yeah,

Anthony: 27:05

that's a great way to describe it. Yeah, they put a lot of life into it. I like that. And yeah, it's, it's just a great, it's a great cinematic experience. We, we saw it on the IMAX which was a great way. The, the other thing I noticed too, when we. You know, the IMAX is known for its sound, too, and the sound in this movie is really intense. Yeah, its

Ethan: 27:26

sound design is great. Sound design is usually something relatively underappreciated, but they did a really good job with, with the sound.

Anthony: 27:34

They, they really did. And I, I mean, I, I was sitting there and I could feel like my heart vibrating and stuff, you know, in those deep sounds came on you know, at different times in the movie. So yeah. So the sound, the music, all of it is great. Yeah. I give it an A

Ethan: 27:54

Yeah, I would agree. A

Anthony: 27:55

Yeah, for sure. All right. Anything else on Dune before we wrap up?

Ethan: 28:01

No, I think I, we've pretty much said everything there is to say about it. So if you enjoyed today's episode You can leave us an email, say anything that you want us to do better, or if you just want to say hi, whatever. You can also follow our social medias, we'll leave them in the episode description, but we'll see you next one. Yeah,

Anthony: 28:25

have a great week, everyone.